Curse

actionjack · Jun 12, 2006, 03:46 AM // 03:46

Seem intersting, and would add more variations to character customization. Some value might need some play test to see how effective or uneffect it would be.

But I think more Runes, and weapon mods, would be good.

IllusiveMind · Jun 12, 2006, 04:11 AM // 04:11

/not signed

I suggest making your own game then.

pork soldier · Jun 12, 2006, 04:50 AM // 04:50

Bad idea imo, the current balance is just about right.

Chaco Nautzi · Jun 15, 2006, 02:00 AM // 02:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by IllusiveMind

/not signed

I suggest making your own game then.

Suggest we make or own game then, eh?

Well I have two thoughts A) I dont know why you think that, please explain more
B) Is there anyway to like bump this thing to the top instead of just having it sit here and die? I like this idea...I want this to become a part of the game, and if you think it's balanced because warriors have a no drawback rune all to themselves, and the other melee'er (Assassin) doesnt even have its own rune...I dont know what to tell you, but I think at least Assassin should have it's own no drawback rune.

Ira Blinks · Jun 15, 2006, 02:16 AM // 02:16

funny how this turned into "ZMOG NO! We poor warriors already ballanced!" argument.

Vahn Roi · Jun 15, 2006, 02:17 AM // 02:17

/notsigned

Penalty free runes only work for warriors, Tanks need to take a beating and to do that they need health, it wouldn't make much sense to skim 3 points off of incoming damage if the price of 75 health.

and exhaustion is what brings balance to the elementalist class, period.

Rogmar · Jun 15, 2006, 02:18 AM // 02:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by pork soldier

Bad idea imo, the current balance is just about right.

Exactly, -3 Damage is like buffing the shields capabilities a bit. -3 Damage is very negligible (spelling?) and it's basically a strength of the warrior class's very high armor. Warriors are already low on energy so using their secondaries is very hard unless you use stances like Bonneti's. Think of it this way, Caster's armor gives an inherent Energy bonus already, and this can be an inherent bonus technically because it has no penalty except taking up a rune slot. You don't see people complaining about how killing a warrior is too hard, so it's obviously not balanced.
The ONLY rune of this I might support is an Assassin's rune because of their incredibly low armor for being right in the midst of the battle.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ira Blinks

funny how this turned into "ZMOG NO! We poor warriors already ballanced!" argument.

Because it's true? If it's not broke, don't fix it...

Chaco Nautzi · Jun 15, 2006, 02:20 AM // 02:20

Why doesnt it work for assassins? They take about as much a beating as wars do....And most of the time(Ive seen) they die.

I dont think that we should give them the 5/10/15 percent evasion runes , I think we should tone it down a bit 3/6/9 maybe.

Sorry, started to post before I saw yours Rogmar...btw you spelled negligible right...

Vahn Roi · Jun 15, 2006, 02:20 AM // 02:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rogmar

The ONLY rune of this I might support is an Assassin's rune because of their incredibly low armor for being right in the midst of the battle.

That's why they have a mess of teleportation skills, they aren't supposed to be in the midst of battle long enough to take a beating.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chaco

Why doesnt it work for assassins? They take about as much a beating as wars do....And most of the time(Ive seen) they die.

The people you are talking about have no idea what they are doing if that is the case. Those are what we call "Asses"

Chaco Nautzi · Jun 15, 2006, 02:26 AM // 02:26

The warrior still has skills to prevent them from taking a beating at all (Bonetti's, Glad's, etc., etc.,) and yet for some reason they still need a rune that prevents damage like most of their tatics skills?(not limited to tactics)

Rogmar · Jun 15, 2006, 02:32 AM // 02:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chaco Nautzi

The warrior still has skills to prevent them from taking a beating at all (Bonetti's, Glad's, etc., etc.,) and yet for some reason they still need a rune that prevents damage like most of their tatics skills?(not limited to tactics)

They don't need it, and neither are Bonneti's/Glad's useful in PvP as hardly anyone attacks the warrior. The damage is good for AoE spells and hexes or what not. Besides Mesmers have Mantras, Rangers have their stances, Assassins/Monks/Eles have their enchantments, Ritualists have spirits so it's really only the Necromancers who don't have many self-casted protections. Not to mention all of these classes are OUT of the battle, besides the assassins, hence the acknowledgement at the end of my last post.

Quote:

Originally Posted by vahn

That's why they have a mess of teleportation skills, they aren't supposed to be in the midst of battle long enough to take a beating.

Finding an ally in a safe area away from battle isn't exactly the quickest thing to do. Of course there's Aura of D which is pretty lame for an elite.

Pillz_veritas · Jun 15, 2006, 02:36 AM // 02:36

My thought on this subject has recently changed from the past views to something new... so here it is.

Remove the fact that you need to be a warrior to use absorption runes, and leave it at that.

Problem solved.

Vahn Roi · Jun 15, 2006, 02:36 AM // 02:36

Aura of Displacement is used more often than Return or Recall.

:edit:
It is pretty lame for elite status, I think the class would get a great uplifting if it became a standard skill, but as you probably have noticed a lot of Factions elites don't really deserve the status. Also if AoD became a standard skill, the other return skills would be useless.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pillz

My thought on this subject has recently changed from the past views to something new... so here it is.

Remove the fact that you need to be a warrior to use absorption runes, and leave it at that.

Problem solved.

That doesn't solve anything, all it would mean is everyone would have a Sup Absorbtion on them at which point the advantage of said rune would become void.

Stockholm · Jun 15, 2006, 02:41 AM // 02:41

Make Absorption rune's like Vigor runes, any class can use them

Quote:

Thus your suggestion would infact make Sup Absorbtion totally worthless

I don't see Sup Vigor being Worthless now. And the the thread is about warriors having 1 extra rune, making the Abs rune useable for every class just like the Vigor, insted of adding new runes that would screw up the balance making the Abs rune universal would only take minor tweaks here and there.

Off subject.
And Sup Abs. is allready worthless on the market at least.

Vahn Roi · Jun 15, 2006, 02:42 AM // 02:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stockholm

Make Absorption rune's like Vigor runes, any class can use them

You probably didn't get to see my edit before you posted, so take a peak at the post above you.

Chaco Nautzi · Jun 15, 2006, 02:51 AM // 02:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rogmar

They don't need it, and neither are Bonneti's/Glad's useful in PvP as hardly anyone attacks the warrior. The damage is good for AoE spells and hexes or what not. Besides Mesmers have Mantras, Rangers have their stances, Assassins/Monks/Eles have their enchantments, Ritualists have spirits so it's really only the Necromancers who don't have many self-casted protections.

>.< Im a little confused rogmar. Are you with or against me on the Assassin rune?

But you said they dont really need the skills I mentioned and: Assassins get hit hard by everyone they're still in the "squishy," "light-weight," or whatever you want to call it, group. And get hurt as much as warriors by certain spells, if not more.(not including Shadow dmg, or Life stealing seeing as how they both bypass armor) Assassins arent that hard to kill with a necro, ele, or even monk(smiting).

Ok, and also....Absorbtion runes are meant for wars because they compliment that class's core job.... And what we're arguing about is whether or not they should add some new ones to compliment other classes' core jobs. The problem cant be solved as simply as giving everyone absorbtion runes(wtf?) it doesnt help the monk being ass-raped by a warrior hitting 30-50 on the monk (w/o skills) (if you didn't know 30-3=27 50-3=47 27-47 not a whole lot of difference)

Vahn Roi · Jun 15, 2006, 02:54 AM // 02:54

There could be been a much better idea for a monk exclusive rune of this nature. Maybe one that has a chance for "divine intervention"

Chaco Nautzi · Jun 15, 2006, 02:59 AM // 02:59

I couldnt really think of one myself, I havent heard one I really liked yet though.

I said earlier about having a monk enchantment rune but bleh, I like yours better.

I still want to see some sort of static evasion rune for assassin.(as mention earlier)

BahamutKaiser · Jun 15, 2006, 03:39 AM // 03:39

Most of Assassins teleports are crap, poor reuse time, elite status, crappy circimstantial benefits. Assassins lack of armor isn't replaced by a skill, we have 8 skill slots, using one of them for defense just to meet defensive neccessity isn't balance, expecially when being able to shrug off damage for the team is an asset, and warrior can use the same amount of skill slots to provide even more defense and survival to himself without fleaing combat.

Assassin can't teleport left and right to reduce damage, the recast times on these teleports are so long that you will be lucky to get out of one attack with most teleports and you can't use them regularly enough to continously return to battle and teleport out constantly. Using your elite to escape damage regularly isn't a very effective option either, compared to SoJ, Gladiators Defense or Defy Pain, even escape, Aura of Displacement is crap. An Assassin with his best teleports barely meets warrior with his natural defensive strengths, adding an elite teleport skill to the equation to meet Warriors survival when Warrior could very well live twice as long still with one of his elites is nonsense.

If I could use Deaths charge every 10 or 15 seconds, even without the healing, and maybe recall for 5 energy, then we would be talking about survival by teleport, as it is, being able to advance quickly every 45 seconds with conditional heal, being able to retreat at the cost of 15 energy and 1 maintenance, and being able to advance and retreat with an elite every 20 seconds at the cost of 10 energy and 1 maintenance is plain silly.

Heart of Shadow Vs Reversal of Fortune? You can only cast heart of shadown to save support yourself and it only heals when damage, not reverse damage, yet it has a 15 second cast time..... Random Teleports within your location arn't that valuable.

All teleports ,besides Aura of Displacement (which is an elite teleport), are one way, they may be more effective than running skills for crossing distance in a short period of time, but they can't be used interchangeably for advancing and retreating, and Assassin is a melee fighter with the least armor in the game, with those kind of odds Assassin should be able to teleport every 5 or 10 seconds to dodge out the difference of damage received compared to a warrior.

Warrior has heavier armor, Assassin has more energy on his armor to use more skills, need I explain that Assassin should have skills good enough to match warriors defense with those skills.....

Furthermore, this nonsense about Warriors having less energy to cover use skills from a secondary class is just that, nonsense. Last time I checked, most Warrior skills are adrenaline based, using thier own adrenaline and signet based attacks and heals, will using the energy they have for spells from a secondary allow them to divide the cost into 2 seperate sources, leaving plenty of energy to cast heals with W/Mo with their energy wile they use adrenaline to deal damage with their attack skills. Again, comparing to Assassin who is spending vast portions of energy just to attack, they have even less energy then Warrior to use other spells, and Warrior is at a disadvantage?

Assassin may be quick off the bench, but Warrior can actually play his rounds, Assassin will be back on the bench in no time with weak skills and low defense, if he isn't buried. I don't have a problem with a more complicated melee character, which is why I like Assassin over Warrior, but not being able to compete with warrior in all aspects puts Assassins at a clear and outstanding second, at this rate I will likely end up with a bow in my Assassins hand so I can deal out attacks and skills without wasting large amounts of energy to dodge in and out of battle, or not being able to do it cheaply more then once per encursion.

Teleporting Skills vs Natural Defense, Defense wins. Teleporting Skills vs Ranged Attack, Ranged wins. If Assassins needs skills to compete with the natural advantages other attackers have, they should be damn good, not expensive and rarely useable...... and elite (or at least the elite needs to be way better).

Right now, the Only teleport skill I appreciate is Return. At least I manage to cripple the enemy wile escaping, which is worth a 20 second recast, comparing advancing every 45 seconds with conditional heal to Return...... flat out retarded.

Chaco Nautzi · Jun 16, 2006, 01:04 AM // 01:04

Ok so we have the only good skill being Return....now...after that exceedingly long/emotionally movign speeach by Bahamut, I think we need at least a new no drawback Assassin rune something of an evasion rune perhaps?

I want a *cough*STATIC EVASION*cough* rune or some feedback and ideas on another type of rune that assassin could need/have a use.